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Employee Issues

10 posts
  1. Ryan Leach
    Ryan Leach avatar
    6 posts
    1/22/2014 7:01 AM
    I am in my third season as a super and I enjoy it. I worked here as a seasonal and a full time laborer said he was taking turf classes at night. I thought, "I like this more than computer science; I'm going to be a super." I enrolled and come to find out, the laborer never took classes (only two professors taught turf; wasn't hard to figure out). :lol:

    I left the course I started, I interned at a CC, finished my degree, and a super's position came up where I started as a seasonal. I applied and got the job. :D
    I am younger than anyone here and I already know that is an uphill battle with the older generation.

    The laborer that "took the classes" told me he was bitter. He was bitter that I got the position and he didn't. Bitter because he worked his butt off and could not move up because he did not have "a piece of paper" (degree) to even apply for the position. And bitter because I got the position and he thinks I am not qualified. I try to create a team atmosphere but he constantly is defiant, arrogant, and runs to the pro when he doesn't like when things are going his way. On the flip side, he is the most knowledgeable about the course of all the laborers (3), is the hardest working, and looks for the little improvements.

    Our crew of 4 is divided because of foul talking, loyalty issues, jealousy, etc.

    Being new I was wondering if any supers out there has any advice on getting everyone on track and that laborer on my side. This position is a learning experience and unfortunately he is like a shark when I do something wrong or he has a "better" way of doing it. I started being defensive and now I am being humble and it is getting worse. :oops:

    I would appreciate any guidance out there.



  2. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    1/22/2014 8:01 AM
    Sounds like he's one of those guys who thinks you can't do without him. Show him otherwise.

    Send him packing next time he goes to the pro.



  3. Rodney Crow
    Rodney Crow avatar
    0 posts
    1/22/2014 8:01 AM
    I have to concur with Peter on this one. We have all heard the saying "One bad apple spoils the bunch", and that saying rings true nearly 100% of the time. The fact that this person is taking out his bitterness on YOU already speaks volumes to his character. Unless you were the person that selected the candidates, did the interview on yourself, and chose yourself for the position, then his bitterness should really be focused on someone else. (Not saying there should be any bitterness at all, but you know what I mean) I have found that often times, once an employee gets disgruntled, they can never really snap out of that. What happens in the mean time is that the person is polluting the rest of the crews' thinking and camaraderie, which will eventually undermine everything you're trying to build up. Although I don't discount that his knowledge is very valuable, the detriment that he's producing within the working environment is not worth it.



  4. Ronald Conard
    Ronald Conard avatar
    4 posts
    1/22/2014 8:01 AM
    Ryan,

    It sounds like you're going to have to start the process to termination as Pete said. Whoever you report to needs to be brought into the loop, the facts of the situation relayed to them, and then you provide your solution to the problem.

    If you haven't already, you will most likely be asked to start documenting each and every occurrence of insubordination moving forward. If not asked to do so, do it anyway. If, in the process, you find out that this individual has more backing from the powers-that-be than you do, then you're in a tenuous situation. But if they hired you over him, then it stands to reason that you have some backing in this situation.

    What other option do you have? What is the motivation for this individual to behave in this manner? Your job is what he is looking for, right? I can't see how this can be rehabilitated.



  5. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    1/22/2014 8:01 AM
    Release the bitter employee. As soon as possible. Regardless of his knowledge and work habits. His bad attitude and conduct will deplete your efforts more than his positive attributes will enhance your efforts.



  6. Stephen Johnson
    Stephen Johnson avatar
    0 posts
    1/22/2014 8:01 AM
    Be confident in your choices, if you have the education (knowledge) to get the job done then do it. You will learn from your mistakes, probably more than you learned in school.
    Get rid of the cancer on your staff. Speaking from experience you will over come the loss of this one persons on course knowledge and you and the rest of the staff will succeed. Having this detractor around undermining you abilities will only cause more problems for you. Be professional about the dismissal and document any and all reasons you are using to do so.



  7. Brian Nettz
    Brian Nettz avatar
    0 posts
    1/22/2014 8:01 AM
    Ryan,

    Sometimes you have to look people straight in the eye and tell them they are not a good fit for your team. Then you hand them a check and thank them for their work. You can't reform people like this and having them there is not fair to the rest of your staff. Oh, and by the way, he won't go quietly either so just know that up front. Welcome to the world of managing people.



  8. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    1/22/2014 9:01 AM
    Depending on how difficult your HR process is, you need to either start a process of getting rid of him or doing so right away. If you have a long drawn out process, start immediately with a disciplinary letter that explains how he is undermining your authority and inform him he is no longer to run to the pro shop for any reason. Document every critical move he makes. If you can just flat out dump him, do so today. He is toxic for you and your team and the operation as a whole!



  9. Ryan Leach
    Ryan Leach avatar
    6 posts
    1/22/2014 10:01 AM
    Thanks for all the information.

    I had a meeting this morning with the pro and the laborer (the pro wanted the meeting today). The pro (who is over me) made it clear that I was in charge and I make the final decisions; in my department. I am the one that has to live with those decisions. If the employee does not like the decisions I make, tough luck chuck. However, I need to listen to all's opinions and form my own. If i choose a different I need to explain why I am doing it my way.

    The laborer agreed to step back and not be so forth coming. He argued that he was trying to save me the time of making mistakes and wanting me to do it right the first time whether I knew it or not. We are a small crew and can't afford much downtime. He is not gunning for my position as he knows it will not be available. He also argued that if I make a mistake, it makes the team look bad as a whole and does not want that to happen.

    I, myself, love being a superintendent. I love all aspects of the course. I guess there will be years of learning and making mistakes. Thanks again for all the advice



  10. Sandy Clark
    Sandy Clark avatar
    0 posts
    1/22/2014 11:01 AM
    I would still make it very clear with this guy that if he has an issue, he is only to discuss it with you, not the crew or anyone else. If he sidesteps this, I would not hesitate to write him up. Don't trust this guy at all. People rarely change. You have not seen the lat of trouble with this guy unfortunately. I really hope I am wrong but that is not what many years of experience tells me.



  11. Steve Nelson
    Steve Nelson avatar
    0 posts
    1/22/2014 12:01 PM
    I noticed you work for a city so getting rid of an employee is most likely not as easy as some seem to think. Just document everything. At a certain point something will give. The employee will either begin to respect you because of the effort you are putting in or he will continue to be a problem and will have to go. If he's a hard worker and cares about the place he may well come around and be in your corner. Only time will tell. Good luck, first superintendent positions are rarely easy, and learning to manage people is always the hardest part.



  12. Clay Putnam
    Clay Putnam avatar
    33 posts
    1/22/2014 12:01 PM
    Sandy hit the mark. This isn't over. As Sandy said, I would have a sit down with this employee and make it CLEAR that he must bring all suggestions/comments to you and only you. I would keep my thumb on this guy and not give him an inch. I live by a few philosophies and one is that I will not allow someone else dictate my success if I can control it. You have control over this employee. Do not let him influence your demise. I too would like to think that this employee will become a productive team member for you, but I seriously doubt that can happen.



  13. Christopher Boldreghini
    Christopher Boldreghini avatar
    0 posts
    1/26/2014 8:01 AM
    If he is an "at will" employee you don't need any documentation for his termination. This industry is tough enough on its own, you don't need an employee that undermines you. If you feel like looking over your shoulder all of the time, you can try to rehabilitate him. If you would like to move forward with YOUR career then send him packing.

    Charlie B



  14. Matt Dutkiewicz
    Matt Dutkiewicz avatar
    0 posts
    1/26/2014 1:01 PM
    My employer is an "At-Will" employer as well, but that does not mean you don't need documentation to terminate an employee. Years ago that was the thought process, and an employee who was terminated for very good reasons, went to court and 3 years later he was restored to his position, with 3 years of back pay, plus damages. That employee then sat on his butt for an entire year, knowing he couldn't be touched and then promptly retired with a full pension. From that point on documentation and plenty of it has been part of our work lives. We go on a 3-4 level process. 1st level is a verbal warning: talk to the employee about the behavior that is unacceptable, Then document that you had the talk, dual signatures would be optimal. 2nd level is a formal written warning: document that the behavior has continued beyond the initial warning, and document that it will not be tolerated any longer. Again dual signatures are optimal. 3rd level is a Suspension: suspend the employee when the behavior pops up again, for at least 1 day's time and for no more than 3 days. Notify the employee at the time of the suspension how many days the suspension will be for and give them a date and time to come back and meet. Make it clear that he/she is not allowed back on the grounds until the time of the scheduled meet. During the time they are suspended you will need to decide on the next step, most often that step is termination, but determine with your supervisor or HR if available, that you have the proper amount of documentation, and there is just cause for termination. If so then when the employee returns for the meeting at the scheduled time you deliver the termination notice, with copies of all your documented levels of discipline. Explain that the relationship has ended, make it clear that they are no longer employed by you or your course, and wish them well in the future. Do not ad-lib, or make comments or derogatory remarks. It is crucial to stick to a script here, don't let them goad you into saying anything else, lawyers would have a field day with that. If need be have security nearby to stay with them while they gather their personal belongings and exit the facility. Yes this seems like a lot of work to do, but do the groundwork properly and you will drastically reduce backlash or a call from their lawyer. Note: When I mention dual signatures, that ideally would be yours and the offending employees, but it also could be your boss, or your assistant, always a good idea to have another person present to protect yourself from a he-said-she-said scenario. My only other advice is always enforce ALL the rules EVENLY to ALL employees. If you give anyone preferential treatment then you are setting yourself up for a court date. Good luck to you!



  15. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    3/1/2014 7:03 AM
    Ryan M Leach said: Thanks for all the information.

    I had a meeting this morning with the pro and the laborer (the pro wanted the meeting today). The pro (who is over me) made it clear that I was in charge and I make the final decisions; in my department. I am the one that has to live with those decisions. If the employee does not like the decisions I make, tough luck chuck. However, I need to listen to all's opinions and form my own. If i choose a different I need to explain why I am doing it my way.

    The laborer agreed to step back and not be so forth coming. He argued that he was trying to save me the time of making mistakes and wanting me to do it right the first time whether I knew it or not. We are a small crew and can't afford much downtime. He is not gunning for my position as he knows it will not be available. He also argued that if I make a mistake, it makes the team look bad as a whole and does not want that to happen.

    I, myself, love being a superintendent. I love all aspects of the course. I guess there will be years of learning and making mistakes. Thanks again for all the advice


    Ryan, hope all is going well with your issue. Sorry that I am just now reading it and responding to it. Everything everybody above has typed has merrit.
    I though have a different opinion. How do you see yourself at your current club? by this do you have the desire to move up eventually to a bigger better club (a lot of people do). If so why not try to work with this guy instead of against him? No I do not mean he is right at all but rather that it seems he could be a very valuable part of your clubs success going forward. Maybe sitting him down and explaining what it took you to get to the level before him (you desired the position and did what was neccessary to put yourself in position to achieve it). Promise him that you will help him achieve this same goal as long as he is working towards it and keeping the clubs best interest (and your) first. Maybe he may need help with the online learning process or has other weakness's that may hold him back. If he is game, lay out a working timeline for him to make his progress with. start with a evaluation of his work ethic and knowledge of taking care of a course. Maybe use the GSCAA's superintendents self assessment tool online (that may be an eye openor). There is a lot more to being a Superintendet then just physically taking care of the course.

    By bring him aboard to your side with his best interest he may turn out to be the best worker you have. You would have to give him plenty of help in his learning but I know I generally find a single worker on my crew that seems to have the makings of a Superintendent and I try to help them along their journey. I generally get loyalty from them because I am not just their boss but their mentor also. Unlike at other clubs my guys know from the get go that if they desire to move up it will most likely have to be at another club and we are both fine with it. I too have a small crew and it is even more important for me to have trusting employees to work for us. Because my duties also require keeping a 51 year old building working (clubhouse) I have to be able to trust the people under me.

    I always try to teach anyone that works around me that you do not always get paid money for everything. sometimes you do things for free just to learn from it. If you go to college you are going to pay for the education you would get so why would you expect to get any work education for nothing. In my past I was known to work for contractors over the weekend just to learn their trade. As long as I work hard for them they did not have a problem having a guy that did not know much as a helper as long as he always worked. Those days of practually unpaid labor I learned how to run electrical wiring, install plumbing, build houses or even remodeling houses. When people now see that there is not much I cannot do or at least know about they are convinced I had been to college and not the school of hard knocks. I am living proof to my crew that you can come from the bottom to the top. I feel that is why they are more then willing to do anything for me because from where I came from is where they are currently sitting. Where Iam at is where they want to be. And I am the only one they know that is willing to help them achieve their goals and actually care about them.

    Not everyone is like this though and your worker may be one of those. I do know that by helping a worker work towards a lifetime goal of bettering himself will get you a lot of loyalty and hard work in return. Just remember this is a two way street. you have to help by being a mentor (it does not matter how old a mentor is, just that he has more to teach) and showing that you care.

    One last thing, if this is the path yall take, ask him to do an evaluation on yourself also. There are two reasons for this, the first is that by allowing him to also show what he feels is your weakness you may be able to improve yourself! the other thing is that a part of a Superintendents duties is to evaluate their workers and he will need to be taught how to achieve this as part of the training.

    Who knows, it could work out to be a great move on your part and at the worst you can get rid of him like most of the poster said above.

    Good Luck.



  16. Nicholas Daak
    Nicholas Daak avatar
    3 posts
    3/20/2014 7:03 PM
    I was in same boat about 3 years ago. I finally had enough, grew a set, and let him go. The course hadn't looked, played, or made as much money as it does now. Just getting that monkey off my back made my profesionaland personal life a lot better.



  17. Ryan Massey_2
    Ryan Massey_2 avatar
    0 posts
    12/6/2014 1:12 PM
    Future Superintendent here.
    I have no experience managing people but i do know about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and am able to recognize the psychological state this employee is in. The easiest course of action would be to fire this individual. Everyone here has said that this employee should be fired. But is it really a good idea to let your ego get in the way? We are talking about an employee that is very knowledgeable about the course that you just began to manage. A good manager should have the sense to keep good employees. The real problem here is that this employee has set goals for himself and it is yours and my future responsibility as a superintendent and a human being to help him achieve that goal. The first thing i would do is sit down with this individual and lay it all out on the table and make it clear that he cannot continue to act the way he has. I would express to him that i understand he has worked hard to get where he is at and feels under appreciated since he was not given my position. Ways to solve this might include offering the employee a small raise but, also informing them that there are other opportunities out there for him and that you would gladly serve as a solid reference. If you do all this and his attitude has not changed, go ahead and can him.



  18. Mark Van Lienden
    Mark Van Lienden avatar
    14 posts
    12/7/2014 6:12 AM
    I was a superintendent for 40 Years and don't regret any of the firings I did. I do wish I would have done some sooner. I also think back fondly of the people that I worked well with and in hind sight would have focused on that more.



  19. James Smith
    James Smith avatar
    112 posts
    12/8/2014 7:12 AM
    Ryan G Massey said: Future Superintendent here.
    I have no experience managing people but i do know about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and am able to recognize the psychological state this employee is in. The easiest course of action would be to fire this individual. Everyone here has said that this employee should be fired. But is it really a good idea to let your ego get in the way? We are talking about an employee that is very knowledgeable about the course that you just began to manage. A good manager should have the sense to keep good employees. The real problem here is that this employee has set goals for himself and it is yours and my future responsibility as a superintendent and a human being to help him achieve that goal. The first thing i would do is sit down with this individual and lay it all out on the table and make it clear that he cannot continue to act the way he has. I would express to him that i understand he has worked hard to get where he is at and feels under appreciated since he was not given my position. Ways to solve this might include offering the employee a small raise but, also informing them that there are other opportunities out there for him and that you would gladly serve as a solid reference. If you do all this and his attitude has not changed, go ahead and can him.

    Dear future Superintendent, Sometimes it is not enough to just manage employees. Sometimes you need to see what employees are doing with the rest of the crew. One bad apple can ruin everything. Do you think it is ok to keep a guy around the runs behind your back and knocks everything you are doing? And to do it to the Pro too? I have never seen a situation like this end nicely for the Superintendent. I know how valuable an employee can be when they know everything about your course. I also know that being the well trained Superintendent that I can figure out whatever he knows. I do not need that kind of cancer around myself, my crew and my course.



  20. Michael Wagner
    Michael Wagner avatar
    0 posts
    7/3/2016 6:07 AM
    Had an employee lie to me today about where he was. I literally followed his tire tracks to where he was parked and asked if he had been where I just came from. He told me straight faced "nope just came from #1". I called him out on it and he got upset and stormed off saying he had busted his ass since he started working for me and he didn't need this. I wasn't even upset that he had been where he was or that he took the scenic route to where he needed to be. I am a little baffled by this since he's been a great employee except for this one time. I had no intentions of even reprimanding him for anything and slightly confused why anyone would act like that. Honestly I'm not even sure why I'm posting it on here other than wondering if anyone has had a similar experience. :?



  21. Peter Bowman
    Peter Bowman avatar
    11 posts
    7/3/2016 8:07 AM
    Tell me the truth, I might reprimand you. Lie to me, you're fired.



  22. Michael Wagner
    Michael Wagner avatar
    0 posts
    7/3/2016 8:07 AM
    Peter Bowman, CGCS said: Tell me the truth, I might reprimand you. Lie to me, you're fired.

    Agreed. Didn't get that far. He quit.



  23. Roger Brink
    Roger Brink avatar
    0 posts
    7/3/2016 3:07 PM
    If it wasn't really an issue where he had been, why did you bring it up to him. I think sometimes it's better to let the little things go. Especially if there's no harm being done. For what this industry pays its people, we as managers, need to need to look the other way sometimes. Was it worth loosing a good staff member? Probably not.



  24. Paul Double
    Paul Double avatar
    37 posts
    7/3/2016 10:07 PM
    Like Peter said, be honest with me even if you have done something wrong and we can work thru it, lie to me and not a good thing. Sometimes you can look the other way, but you have to be careful because once you start that, sometimes things get out of control quickly as people start testing to see how far they can go. If you did just ask him about where he was at and you know for sure it was his tracks, and he got defensive that quickly, sounds like there might be more to the story. I have been there before, but again be honest.



  25. Michael Wagner
    Michael Wagner avatar
    0 posts
    7/4/2016 6:07 AM
    Roger Brink said: If it wasn't really an issue where he had been, why did you bring it up to him. I think sometimes it's better to let the little things go. Especially if there's no harm being done. For what this industry pays its people, we as managers, need to need to look the other way sometimes. Was it worth loosing a good staff member? Probably not.

    I guess I didn't tell the whole story. He drove across my 15th green with a gator. Otherwise I would have let it go. He is new and I would have given him the benefit of the doubt and just told him not to drive on a green again.



  26. Max Lamas
    Max Lamas avatar
    0 posts
    7/4/2016 8:07 AM
    Lied and drove across a green? Fired



  27. Trevor Monreal
    Trevor Monreal avatar
    5 posts
    7/4/2016 12:07 PM
    Max Lamas said: Lied and drove across a green? Fired

    Yep...
    Unless he has a blue flag somewhere on the cart
    Then he can drive over greens, through bunkers, etc.



  28. Noy Sparks
    Noy Sparks avatar
    0 posts
    7/25/2016 6:07 AM
    So somewhat related...

    How do you get your crew to pick up trash as they are driving around? On a daily basis I find trash beside the cart paths that the staff just passes by. I really don't get it--I mean, I think it's possible that on occasion they don't see something, but there is no way they don't see everything I find. It's pathetic that they are so lazy to continually drive by stuff. I remind them regularly that it's all of our responsibility to pick up trash but it goes in one ear and out the other. I don't know how to hold them accountable for this because they just claim they didn't see it.

    Does anyone have a good solution to this? I get fed up and it really puts me in a bad mood. I really think it's a testament to our work force. They ain't what they used to be. In fact, generally speaking, they suck. You may get a handful that really take pride in their work, but the majority suck. At least that's what I see trending the last 5 years or so.

    Thoughts?



  29. Robert Mitchell
    Robert Mitchell avatar
    0 posts
    7/25/2016 8:07 AM
    I battle the same thing on trash but its gotten better over the last couple of years, I have money set aside in the budget for monthly cookouts so every now and then I will take some $$$ out of that and put it under a piece of trash or inside a bottle. Ive also started recycling all of the scrap metal and use it as a bonus program or thank you for doing the little things, probably not the best approach but it works and has everyone paying attention to details.



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