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john deere 4500 tractor

16 posts
  1. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/5/2014 11:09 AM
    I have a john deere 4500 compact tractor. We use it to pull our rough mower, but last week we noticed oil coming out from under the steering wheel. We took it apart and found that one of the hydraulic hoses to the power steering had gone bad. While I had everything apart I went ahead and replaced the other 3 hoses. After assembling everything, we turned the tractor on and we had no power steering. We checked to make sure hoses were on properly and bled the air out of the lines. We called John Deere and they said that it may be sucking air from someplace. We checked all connections and replaced a couple fittings. Still no luck. The wheels will turn, but just very hard. Is there a way to check the power steering pump or the valve beneath the steering wheel or the front cylinder, does anyone else have other suggestions.

    I just can't see after replacing 4 hoses that I would lose my power steering or the pump would go bad, have I not bled the lines enough. I am at a loss.

    Thank you for any help

    Brian Madara



  2. Matt Falvo
    Matt Falvo avatar
    0 posts
    9/5/2014 12:09 PM
    Might need to bleed the hydro system.

    From the manual.



    HYDRAULIC SYSTEM BLEED
    PROCEDURE
    Reason:
    To remove air trapped in the hydraulic system which will
    prevent proper operation.
    Special or Essential Tools:
    • BW13586 Ballast Box
    Procedure:
    IMPORTANT: If contamination is found in hydraulic
    system filter or inside reservoir, flush entire
    hydraulic system.
    NOTE: Fill the new hydraulic oil filter with new oil
    before installing.
    1. Install a new hydraulic oil filter.
    2. Fill the transaxle with specified JDM J20D
    (preferred) or J20C oil to the proper level on
    dipstick.
    3. Disconnect plug (A) to fuel shutoff solenoid.
    4. Turn the key to START and hold for 10 seconds.
    Turn the key to OFF.
    5. Reconnect wires to fuel shutoff solenoid.
    6. Raise tractor front end and support on suitable
    stands.
    7. Start the engine and run at low idle.
    IMPORTANT: If steering fails to respond, or pump
    pressure is not being delivered to steering
    control unit (SCU), shut engine off and check to
    see that steering hoses are connected to the
    correct SCU ports.
    8. Slowly turn the steering wheel left and right until
    wheels turn smoothly indicating that any trapped
    air has been bled back to the reservoir.
    IMPORTANT: If rockshaft fails to react to lift control
    lever movement, shut engine off and check hose
    clamps on suction tube elbow and manifold to
    ensure that they are properly tightened.
    9. Operate rockshaft several times until it operates
    smoothly.
    10. Stop the engine and check the hydraulic reservoir
    oil level. Fill as needed. Check all line connections
    for leaks; tighten if necessary.
    11. Lower the tractor to the ground.
    12. (Hydrostatic Model) Drive tractor in forward and
    reverse several times until transmission operates
    smoothly.


    Bret Hart
    Equipment Manager
    Turning Stone Resort



  3. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/5/2014 12:09 PM
    Thanks Bret Hart for the info, but I already did that and it did not work. Any other suggestions

    Thanks,

    Brian Madara



  4. Henry Heinz
    Henry Heinz avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2014 5:09 AM
    Have you tried cracking all three of the lines at the steering and starting it up and see if fluid comes out? If so tighten them while running it may help purge the air. From there I'd go to the lines at the tractor and see if fluid is coming out there, if so you may have a bad line. I've seen lines over crimped and oil could not flow through it causing similar issues on a sweeper.


    Regards,



  5. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2014 8:09 AM
    Henry Heinz said: Have you tried cracking all three of the lines at the steering and starting it up and see if fluid comes out? If so tighten them while running it may help purge the air. From there I'd go to the lines at the tractor and see if fluid is coming out there, if so you may have a bad line. I've seen lines over crimped and oil could not flow through it causing similar issues on a sweeper.


    Regards,


    We opened up every connection and made sure oil was coming out, and it is. that is what my mechanic said, that it may be a bad line, I bought all 4 of these hoses from john deere, instead of going into town like I normally do to get them made.

    How do you know if it is a bad hose and which one it is?

    Thanks



  6. Matt Falvo
    Matt Falvo avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2014 8:09 AM
    Here's a few more tests to try. Might point you to the hose with the issue.


    TESTS AND ADJUSTMENTS
    STEERING SYSTEM TEST
    Reason:
    To check steering control unit and steering cylinder
    operation and check for internal leakage.
    Tools:
    • Torque wrench
    • Caps for hydraulic lines
    Procedure:
    1. Run the tractor until the hydraulic fluid is at
    operating temperature.
    2. Turn the steering wheel to the full right position.
    Apply 6.8 N•m (60 lb in.) constant torque to the
    steering wheel retaining nut, and count the
    steering wheel rotations in one minute.
    3. Repeat the procedure turning the steering wheel to
    the full left position.
    4. Stop engine.
    Results:
    • If the rotation in left or right hand direction exceeds
    5 rotations in one minute, the steering system has
    internal leakage. To determine whether it's the
    SCU or cylinder that is leaking, proceed as follows:
    Procedure:
    1. Label and remove both left and right hydraulic
    hoses at the steering cylinder.
    2. Cap the ends of both hoses.
    3. Repeat the SCU test.
    Results:
    • If the rotation speed is now below 5 rotations in one
    minute, replace the steering cylinder.
    • If the rotation speed remains above 5 rotations in
    one minute, replace the SCU.
    STEERING PRESSURE CHECK
    Reason:
    To ensure that steering pump pressure is maintained at
    correct level for steering without causing damage to the
    system, and to determine if hydraulic pump is worn.
    Equipment:
    • JT03375 - Adapter Fitting (7/16-20 M 37° X 9/16-18
    M ORFS)
    • JT03117 - 0-14000 kPa (0-2000 psi) Pressure
    Gauge
    • JT03017 Hose w/Quick Disconnect Fitting
    Procedure:
    1. Park tractor on a level surface and set park brake.
    2. Shift transmission to NEUTRAL.
    IMPORTANT: Make sure to relieve system pressure
    before loosening any system lines or hoses.
    3. Cycle all controls to relieve any pressure that may
    be in the hydraulic system.
    4. Remove hydraulic hose on left side of steering
    cylinder.
    5. Attach gauge to left steering hose.
    NOTE: Turning steering wheel to the right will cause
    hydraulic oil to leak out of disconnected
    cylinder port. Turn wheel only to left when
    performing test.
    6. Start engine and run at high idle.
    7. Turn steering wheel to the left. While turning wheel,
    check pressure reading on gauge.
    Specifications:
    Pressure . . . . . . .10342 kPa ± 10% (1500 psi ± 10%)
    Results:
    • No pressure: Steering hoses may be incorrectly
    connected to the SCU. Check hose connections.
    • Pressure too low: Relief valve in SCU may be
    stuck open or defective; perform steering system
    test, (See "STEERING SYSTEM TEST" on
    page 9), or gear pump may be worn; disassemble
    and inspect pump. (See "Disassembly and
    Inspection:" on page34 in the Hydraulics Section).
    • Pressure too high: Relief valve in SCU may be
    clogged or defective.


    Bret Hart
    Equipment Manager
    Turning Stone Resort



  7. Henry Heinz
    Henry Heinz avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2014 8:09 AM
    I would double-check the placement of my lines to make sure that none were hooked up to the wrong ports. I would also pull them and blow air through them and make sure they all have good flow.

    Regards,



  8. Kenneth Ingram
    Kenneth Ingram avatar
    18 posts
    9/8/2014 9:09 AM
    Make sure to top off the hydro oil. Crazy stuff happens when they are just a little bit low. Good luck. Kenneth Ingram, UMD.



  9. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2014 12:09 PM
    I am 99% positive that I hooked the hoses up correctly, but just in case, does anyone have a diagram as to where each one goes. The books that I have don't show it and I cant find anything online.

    thanks



  10. Matt Falvo
    Matt Falvo avatar
    0 posts
    9/8/2014 12:09 PM
    Here you go.


    Bret Hart
    Equipment Manager
    Turning Stone Resort



  11. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/9/2014 8:09 AM
    Matt Falvo said: Here you go.


    Bret Hart
    Equipment Manager
    Turning Stone Resort



    thank you for all the info that you are providing. According to this diagram, I have the hoses in the wrong ports. But the diagram is not accurate to my tractor. I have a different setup, so I don't know if the ports are the same or not as the diagram shows. I went ahead and switched the hoses and bleed all the air out, and still no power steering. My tractor might be a couple years older than what this diagram is for. I have a 1998 4500 tractor. didn't know if that is what you had or not.

    thanks

    Brian Madara



  12. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/9/2014 10:09 AM
    Brian Madara, CGCS said:
    Matt Falvo said: Here you go.


    Bret Hart
    Equipment Manager
    Turning Stone Resort



    thank you for all the info that you are providing. According to this diagram, I have the hoses in the wrong ports. But the diagram is not accurate to my tractor. I have a different setup, so I don't know if the ports are the same or not as the diagram shows. I went ahead and switched the hoses and bleed all the air out, and still no power steering. My tractor might be a couple years older than what this diagram is for. I have a 1998 4500 tractor. didn't know if that is what you had or not.

    thanks

    Brian Madara



    The diagram is different than mine, but I ended up taking the steering control unit off to see if they were labeled underneath and it was and I did have it hooked up correctly the first time. So now I have hoses on but still not working.



  13. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/9/2014 1:09 PM
    does anyone know if the steering control unit can be rebuilt, or does anyone have a break down diagram of that. The parts book does not show it and I called my local JD store and they do not sell a rebuild kit. A new one cost about $900 and do not want to spend that. Looked on Ebay and nothing. Are there any turf equipment junk yards that might have it.

    Thanks,

    Brian Madara



  14. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    9/9/2014 3:09 PM
    http://www.tractorpartsasap.com

    I've bought from them before. Good company. Call 'em!



  15. Melvin Waldron
    Melvin Waldron avatar
    43 posts
    9/9/2014 4:09 PM
    We just had to replace a hydraulic motor for a mowing deck on a JD 1600, from what I was told they didn't have rebuild kits for that either.

    There is a John Deere remanufactoring place here in Springfield, don't know what they are rebuilding?

    Mel

    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO

  16. Brian Madara
    Brian Madara avatar
    0 posts
    9/19/2014 11:09 AM
    Thank you to everyone that gave me advice. We finally had to call in a JD service tech to diagnose the problem. We didn't have the right equipment to perform the tests. It ended up being the steering control valve.

    As of today we a back mowing rough, instead of using a 72 inch Lastec to mow everything.

    Thank you so much

    Brian Madara, CGCS



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