When to replace hydraulic hoses Cancel The title field is required!

1. Sean Donnelly

   

   8 posts
   
   5/11/2018 6:05 AM

   What do you all do or recommend for hydraulic hose replacement? If I remember correctly a few years ago Toro recommended replacement of hoses on the 5410 after two years. I believe they updated this to an inspect. (Please correct me if this has changed). An obvious sign of needing repair is cracking, nicks, or metal showing. What about signs that are less visible. I have seen hoses that are less than 2 years old brand new factory installed blow out of the crimp with no previous signs of damage. I also have a 1982 Kubota yard tractor with alot of metal showing on the hydraulic hoses. It has been that way for years. I assume there is little pressure on these hoses or they would have blown years ago.
   
   A couple questions.
   1. Should any hoses that show rusty fittings or crimps be replaced?
   2. Do hoses degrade from heat from the inside out over time that we may not be able to see.
   3. Hard line hoses such as those on the undercarriage of the 3500D. Should rust be a concern on these and has anyone replaced with a flexible hose.
   4. Can hoses rust under the rubber coating if repeated exposure to moisture.
   5. Should hoses be replaced when they feel "stiff" or less pliable than new
   6. I have heard of replacing metal lines that are no longer available on older tractors with pipe. Anyone on here do this with positive results.
   7. What is the general consensus of the covers over the hoses. Reinstall or eliminate.
   
   Here is a picture of a hose on a 5410 that was caught before a leak. The rust has gotten under the hose rubber after I carved it off with a knife. This is the lower end that connects to the front reel motor.

   
   
   
   
2. Roland McPhearson

   

   9 posts
   
   5/11/2018 8:05 AM

   My opinion is all reel hoses that move up and down should be replaced every two years. Others can be inspected.
   
   My understanding is that the covers over the hoses are there to prevent the operator from getting an oil bath or worse should a hose pop.

   
   
   
   
3. Kenneth Meals

   

   2 posts
   
   5/11/2018 10:05 AM

   As Roland stated, hoses that move a lot should be considered replacing more often than one that sees no movement or little movement. Another thing to consider is how often they're turned on and off. When they're pressurized and depressurized there's expansion and contraction. As you can see in the photo the interwoven braids of the steel will rub against each other causing them to get thin. Eventually too thin to hold the pressure and rupture even though they may look perfectly fine on the exterior. If the book says 2,000 hours, 2 years I'll follow it if the budget permits it, which is the hardest factor for some courses. If the book doesn't have any specifications I'll use the best judgement I can due to visual inspection, age, movement, duty cycles and experience.

   
   
   
   
4. Bob Pruneau

   

   5 posts
   
   5/11/2018 3:05 PM

   On the 5410 I'd replace right front reel hoses they seem to take the initial hit when reels are activated . You can actually set the hoses jump . I keep an eye on them . Moving hoses are most likely going to fail at some point . I just keep an eye on them . Cracked or rusty tubes coming off connections . Like the ones on the front lift cylinders on the 5410 .

   
   
   
   
5. Brian Kolar

   

   0 posts
   
   5/11/2018 3:05 PM

   It's funny this came up since our 5410's (2007) have been doing just fine until last week when we had 3 hose failures. And boy does it make me look bad. All of these involved hoses on the center reel at the motor. I just inspected them over the winter, and found no damage. You really can't miss it, as these are the most visible hoses on the unit. My theory is they were parked too close to the wall or another unit and got kinked since those lines stick out of the front of the machine. If the braid gets damaged for any reason or fatigue from moving around, all bets are off.

   
   
   
   
6. Joe Brys

   

   4 posts
   
   5/14/2018 10:05 AM

   I replace every 2 years on most of our Triplex machines and our LF 1880/3400. Lean more towards reel hoses as they're constantly contouring and bending. Budget pending, of course. As that is the killer for a lot of courses.

   
   
   
   
7. Kenneth Meals

   

   2 posts
   
   5/15/2018 10:05 AM

   There's only ways to reduce hydraulic hose failure, absolutely nothing is guaranteed. We replaced all the flexible hydraulic hoses last year on our 4500's and 4700's all OEM. We had one rupture this morning on a 4700. No sign, no warnings and nothing could have been done to prevent it. Only thing I can blame is the mere mention of hydraulic leaks

   
   
   
   
8. Sean Donnelly

   

   8 posts
   
   5/16/2018 6:05 AM

   Kenneth Meals that is interesting info. Could you help me out on what PSI the factory replacement hoses where on the 5410 and the 4500 4700D. The reel and rotary decks specifically. The reason I am asking is that mine fluctuate from 3000 psi to 4250 psi. The previous mechanic replaced some hoses 5/8 on the 4500d decks and 1/2 in the 5410 with same diameter but 3000psi. They seem to be working but it does give me concern. The small 1/4 line is rated at 3000 psi and if my understanding is correct if something jams the reel or blade the fluid is diverted there. So does 3000 psi work for the rest of the hoses as well?
   
   In the 4500d service manual hydraulic scematic for example
   2200 psi for power down and traction assist manifold
   1180 psi for steering control valve
   I do not see a listing for deck control manifold or what psi is required. Can anyone inform me of what the system peaks at psi when the decks are first energized? I do not have a hydraulic pressure tester, specifically in the service manual test #3 cutting deck circuit pressure is what I am looking for.
   
   Bob Pruneau your observation is interesting. In the service manual for the 4500d the side you mention is where the initial charge is from the deck control manifold. I assume it is the similar on the 5410. The last hose in the circuit is the low pressure returning to the deck manifold.

   
   
   
   
9. Brian Kolar

   

   0 posts
   
   5/16/2018 8:05 AM

   For 5410
   [quote">On the mow circuit supplied by pump section (P1) (rear
   cutting units), maximum system pressure is limited by
   solenoid relief valve (R1), which is set at 2500 PSI (172
   bar). On the circuit supplied by pump section (P2) (front
   cutting units), maximum system pressure is limited by
   solenoid relief valve (R2), which is set at 3500 PSI (241
   bar).
   
   Nominal operating pressure will be much lower, with an initial pressure spike.
   The smaller bleed lines see almost zero flow, even if a reel is stalled, and have a direct shot back to the tank. It is my opinion that baring any obvious damage, that these hoses would last the life of the unit.
   
   Original hose equipped on the 5410:
   https://www.hoseandfittingsetc.com/prod ... 471tc-hose

   
   
   
   
10. James Smith

    

    112 posts
    
    5/20/2018 6:05 AM

    a couple of things come to mind with this thread.
    
    First if you see the metal braid has been kinked or torn like above, replace it ASAP
    
    second, there is a good point about the actual pressure rating of the hose and where you get it from makes a difference. if you just get it from a local auto shop they may give you a lower pressure hose if you do not ask for a higher pressure. they may also not pay great attention to how they install the ends (I've had new ones blow out within a few days). So try to use a dependable shop and make sure to tell them how important it is to not have blow outs due to your turf. A great hose shop may decide it is better to use a higher than spec hose to reduce these issues. or if you have a good Tech and can afford the equipment make them yourself.
    
    Third the machine your hose is on makes a difference. due to my budget limitations My greens get top priority on new hose replacements and have a much stricter replacement requirement, where as my tee mower may get a used hose from my greens mower. My fairway mowers is a lot less important and only gets changed if we can see an issue with it.
    
    the place of the hose makes a difference, Certain mowers valve banks power more than one item and may run through one then a second then to a third so the first item may need more scrutiny than the last.
    
    I have hoses on my 20 year old back hoe that looks way worse then the one above but the high cost of those require us to use it until it pops.
    
    Each superintendent has to make up his own mind about how much peace of mind you want from changing out hoses. IT is very expensive to just change all hoses every other year. What can you live with or what can your club live with. Due to my very low budget, my club can and will live with all stripes on the course. the exception is if I knew a hose needed changing and neglected to do it or bring to their attention.

    
    
    
    
11. Sean Donnelly

    

    8 posts
    
    7/20/2018 8:07 AM

    Just a follow up here.
    On the 5410. I have decided to replace all rear 1/4 lift cylinder hoses every two years as PM. These hoses have some weird bends and are stressed as the units go up and down.. (approx $135 from R&R)
    
    On the 3500D 3/8 front lift cyl hoses and the 3/8 hose that tees off from the front to the rear lift cylinder. Same as above every two years. Some strange bends in a tight area. Tough to see any wear marks or damage on these hoses. (Approx $154 from R &R)
    
    On 3wd units the rear hoses where they connect to the wheel motor. On 3500D I have had good luck cutting the crimp off and recrimping. Just enough hose to do it once.
    
    Here is a pic of a rear lift cylinder hose on my 5410. Looks OK on initial inspection until you give it a really good bend.

    
    
    
    
12. Kenneth Meals

    

    2 posts
    
    7/31/2018 10:07 AM

    Sean, I don't have a rough mower in the shop currently but the 5410's were. The 5/8" hoses on the 5410's are rated 4250 psi, the 1/4" at 3000 psi.