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Fix or Replace

13 posts
  1. Craig Stockhaus
    Craig Stockhaus avatar
    0 posts
    12/21/2012 3:12 PM
    I am at a small nine hole course in Kansas and I am currently in the process of either putting 10 grand in to my current machines and keeping them for one more year then getting rid of them or buying new equipment to replace the current machines. My newest machine is a 2000. I personally would like to go with buying newer equipment but my board wants to invest in machine that aren't worth more then 1500-2000 dollars apiece. Any thoughts or comments would be great, Thanks

    Craig Stockhaus
    Cimarron Valley Golf Course



  2. Nicholas Daak
    Nicholas Daak avatar
    3 posts
    12/21/2012 4:12 PM
    I am in the same boat here. I came to course where the last few years no important maintenance was done. I do what I can with $100 here and there. I did make a huge mistake this fall before closing for the season, I washed and waxed all the equipment. Last meeting the board came into the shop and saw all the wonderful equipment. I thought that would be the end of new equipment conversation. Fortunitly all the members there have been around when they built the course 25 years ago and know %80 of the equipment was bought used then. They like how I maintain stuff and have discussed how I would be able to buy something new this year, as long as it looks as good as my equipment does now, after 25 years.



  3. Hardy Andrew
    Hardy Andrew avatar
    12/21/2012 4:12 PM
    Why not bust up the big money cost by doing some of the new pieces this year and the rest next year? Our rule has always been never put more in parts and repairs than what a mower is worth.



  4. Michael Kriz
    Michael Kriz avatar
    0 posts
    12/21/2012 5:12 PM
    I'd look into a lease package. Crunch the numbers, convince the board, be realistic, and you get some new equipment. Once you have the financial dept used to making that lease payment, four years from now you roll it over and have new equipment again. The be realistic part is some pieces of equipment you don't lease, like aerators and one time or seasonal use. If you are a small operation go with a greens mower, fwy mower and a rough mower, then branch out to vehicles.



  5. Stephen Tucker
    Stephen Tucker avatar
    0 posts
    12/21/2012 7:12 PM
    Craig,
    Would need to know more about your fleet to help more but if you have anything falling under Tier IV I would replace it in the next year. If not I would try to analyze what your investment will be for new equipment and what will it take to fix what you have to provide the conditions your members expect.

    To figure out which is the better value I would figure out how long I could keep the equipment to get to around 4000 hours. Take the number of years that is and divide it by the cost of the machine that would determine a yearly cost. If your repair cost is higher than your replacement cost per year I would say buy new. I use 4000 hours because I feel this is where you start spending more money on repairs as long as everything was maintained per factory recommended service intervals. Depending on your situation the end of life hours could be more or less depending on how well it is taken care of.

    My reasoning break down:

    [u">Buy Now[/u">
    Operate Fairway Mower - 500 hours per year - 8 Years Life Expectancy = 4000 hours
    Cost (guess) $40,000
    40,0000/8 = $5000 per year

    If you are spending more than $5000 per year on the fairway mower then it makes more sense to buy. Less than $5000 its cheaper to keep it. I would not include PM costs in this as the machines will both require that regardless.However I would include labor as this is a cost. You can do this with each machine. There is no science to this but I have been working on figuring this out for a while now to give people a better way to determine when they need to replace. Maybe it works for you maybe not still a work in progress and every situation is different. If it makes sense feel free to use it.



  6. Craig Stockhaus
    Craig Stockhaus avatar
    0 posts
    12/21/2012 9:12 PM
    My equipment is all around 3800-4000 hours and all is over ten years old.



  7. Dinger Greg
    Dinger Greg avatar
    12/21/2012 10:12 PM
    I have mixed feelings about it, and could argue either way, but...

    I have a 12 year old Tahoe with 220k on it, and it runs and works every day. I absolutely couldn't afford to replace it with a new comparable unit, or probably even a newer used one, but I sure could afford to put some money toward it even if a major component needed attention. $3000 spent to get another 50-100k seems like money well spent.

    $30,000 plus maint/12 years=$2500/year.
    $30,000 plus maint + $3000 in major repair/13-14 years/>$2538/year.

    That's assuming your units are sound, but you have to judge that. Bottom line is if your board says fix it here's the cash, this is our budget, well we better fix it. Also keep in mind that after five years your trade in value is nil, so it's not like keeping them another year costs you that much more in residual value, they're already rock bottom.

    Also for what it's worth, we just finished out our 9th season with our fleet. Average meter is 3000-3800. Our original plan was to keep in for five years and flip it; I've always treated them like we're keeping them forever, and am now glad I have, because we just may!



  8. Andy Jorgensen
    Andy Jorgensen avatar
    1 posts
    12/22/2012 6:12 AM
    How did you appraise the value of the current fleet? 3,800-4,000 hours is nothing. I've seen machines with that amount of hours on it going for $8,000-10,000 or more on the current market.

    When I got here, almost everything was on a 48 month lease. We were turning in fairway mowers and diesel triplexes with 1,200-3,000 hours on them. Whoever bought that used equipment got a heck of a deal because the machines were impeccable. But, after having a continuous $10,000 monthly lease payment, I started looking at doing leases with a $1 buyout where we keep the equipment at the end. The reasoning behind this was that the few pieces we did own were still running great at 5,000-6,000 hours on them and costing me very little money to operate. I contribute this to our good preventative maintenance program. Therefore, we started doing $1 buyout leases on everything but gas greensmowers. My lease payment has reduced and my fleet has grown. This saves on spending capital dollars that can be redirected to improving the course. If you have minimal cash available, but good cash flow, I'd say look at doing a lease with a $1 buyout. Afterall, it's basically financing. And you get to keep the equipment at the end.

    Now, if the machine is not dependable, and breaking down more than it is used, then regardless of amount of money spent on repairs, I'd be looking to replace. We're in the process of replacing a sprayer with 4,200 hours on it that breaks down every single time we use it. The repairs are minimal, but the downtime is killing me.

    I'm kind of like Greg, if the machine is paid for, replacing anything up to a motor is a drop in the bucket compared to what a new machine would cost. This past year we had to repair two hydrostats on Toro 6500 fairway mowers. Each one cost me $1,200 each to repair. But, here's the catch, one was leased and being picked up two months after the repair, the other we own. Goes to show you can still face major repairs whether it is leased or not. The difference is that I basically wasted the $1,200 on the leased mower as I watched it loaded onto the trailer at the end of the lease. The other machine that we own is still used daily and the $1,200 repair is a wash.

    Another example is the difference between my truck and my assistant's. I own mine and have no payments. He has a payment and said he would continue to have one so that he'll always have a new truck and not face major repairs. But I look at it as I'm saving roughly $5,000 a year on payments that would more than cover any repairs that the truck might need. Meanwhile, he's sending that check off each month regardless. After three years of no payments, I theoretically have $15,000 I could spend on repairs if need be. Of course, the truck is in great shape and runs fantastic with 138,000 miles on it. I'm not looking to replace it for the foreseeable future.



  9. Curt Brisco
    Curt Brisco avatar
    3 posts
    12/22/2012 11:12 AM
    I am pretty sure that you don't have a dedicated mechanic. So every time a piece goes down you don't only lose a machine but an operator. With limited staff, quality equipment is more important than ever. I don't have a mechanic so repairs are done committee. That is one of my biggest selling points when ever I have to justify equipment and it works. Good Luck


    Curt Brisco
    Fox Prairie G.C.



  10. Craig Stockhaus
    Craig Stockhaus avatar
    0 posts
    12/22/2012 1:12 PM
    I am the only one on staff so when my equipment breaks down I do lose valuable time on the course. This last yeah i spent more time in the shop then on the course.



  11. Mark Van Lienden
    Mark Van Lienden avatar
    14 posts
    12/24/2012 7:12 AM
    I have done it a few different ways.If you really need to replace all you might want to look at used. There is alot that comes off lease in the spring and you could probley get a great package.Try to get some from a course that has good prevtitive maintinance.I always tell my board you would not wat to buy from a course like ours.Ask you sales person and try to buy from someone who has multiple mowers for each duty.If I could get only one new piece I would pick a greens mower that eventully could be tee or collar mower.



  12. Henry Heinz
    Henry Heinz avatar
    0 posts
    12/25/2012 12:12 PM
    Take a look at purchasing some off lease equipment, or demo equipment. You'll want to make sure the off lease is from a club with good maintenance practices, not the name of the club. Some folks lease and don't service due to the fact they're not keeping it. I have a friend running some 3500 D Toro's with over 10K hours and his repair and maintenance cost is very low per year due to his high impact service and maintenance schedules. I will add that he has never had a major hydraulic component failure. It's all about the maintenance..... Being a smaller operation you may be best served buying your equipment. I have a good lead on some off lease equipment that has been very well maintained, but it's not available until the end of 2013, first of 2014. It's all Deere so it may not be your flavor of equipment but I can say it's in great condition. We use to have an old saying back in Michigan, if new equipment was the affordable route to go then every golf course would have new equipment. Preventive Maintenance, the two most important words when it comes to protecting one of your clubs largest assets. I can say that I have had fleets in the past where the average hours were 4K to 5K and they ran like new. Yes, we had to replace bushing and some lift arms, but I have been at places where I had to do them at 1k hours due to the lack of maintenance. Just because the hours are low and it's newer doesn't mean it's better.

    Also be careful when leasing. If your not prepared to keep up with maintenance and in decent shape you could receive a large bill at the end, and even more true if you decide to go with a different brand. Seats, tires, reel stock, are among the most common charges. So if that is a concern then you may want to look at new, off lease, or used from a private party.


    Regards,



  13. Smith Kerry L
    Smith Kerry L avatar
    12/31/2012 1:12 PM
    This is from a seminar with Carl Osterhaus with the Toro Co.

    Commercial Turf Equipment Operational Parameters and Factors Hours vs. Miles?

    A typical turf equipment engine runs at 3000 RPM avg. In a modern car, 3000 RPM can equal 75 mph avg.
    Theoretically, every hundred hours of operation on the turf equipment engine could then be considered equal to 7500 car miles! 100hrs x 75mph.
    There is more...
    Equipment Duty Cycle - A modern car engine operates at 20% duty cycle (full power only 20% of the time on avg).
    OTR trucks operate at about 50% duty cycle.
    Turf equipment engine runs about 70% duty cycle.

    Therefore, the turf engine duty cycle is 3-4 times as severe as a car (remember 7500 miles?)
    Compared to a car, the turf engine and oil has done 3-4 times the work (equivalent to 22,500-30,000 car miles).
    This means...."Hours" to Mileage: 500 hours of turf equipment can equal to 125,000 "Car Miles". 2000 hrs of turf equipment can equal 500,000 "Car Miles". 4000 hrs of turf equipment use can equal 1,000,000 "Car Miles" considering the increased load on the engine.



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