Rattlesnakes Cancel The title field is required!

1. Fleegel Timothy

   
   8/9/2011 9:08 AM

   Does anybody put out signs warning people about rattlesnakes or other dangerous animals? This year the snakes seem to be in much bigger numbers and are very active.

   
   
   
   
2. Keith Lamb

   

   3 posts
   
   8/9/2011 9:08 AM

   We have signs warning for alligators....don't know why.
   
   [img">http://i520.photobucket.com/albums/w327/alohakane123/SandHillCranevsGator1.jpg[/img">

   
   
   
   
3. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   8/9/2011 9:08 AM

   Signs admit you have a problem, and aren't willing to do anything about it. If someone gets bit, you can be held liable.
   
   This was from a past experience.....raining all day, wet floor sign, someone slipped and sued. Course lost the case because we didn't dry the floor.

   
   
   
   
4. Fleegel Timothy

   
   8/9/2011 10:08 AM

   But how should I remove the snakes from the 400+ acres of natural areas surrounding the course?

   
   
   
   
5. Andy Jorgensen

   

   1 posts
   
   8/9/2011 10:08 AM

   If you show honest attempts to remedy the situation - like have a trapper come out on a regular basis, etc....that shows you are working towards solving the problem.
   
   We have an ongoing issues now with sidewalks. Had numerous attempts to sue over anything that is not ADA compliant. That means any slope greater than 2%, gaps or cracks wider than 1/4" or lips taller than a 1/4" is getting replaced. Since we have numerous miles of sidewalks, repairing would costs millions of dollars. We were advised by lawyers to show an honest attempt to remedy the issue and we would be okay. Even if this means we have to work on it forever. So, we budget a set amount each year and go from that.

   
   
   
   
6. Wahlin Scott B

   
   8/9/2011 11:08 AM

   [img">http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll284/scottcgcs/pic1.jpg[/img">
   
   [img">http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll284/scottcgcs/pic2.jpg[/img">
   
   We have used these signs.

   
   
   
   
7. Ronald Conard

   

   4 posts
   
   8/9/2011 12:08 PM

   Tim,
   
   I really don't think negligent type issues such as sidewalks are in the same realm as nature. The game evolved in nature, its part of its past, present, and future. The snakes serve a purpose by keeping your rodent populations in control. Call Audubon International and see what they suggest. I'd bet they have plenty of examples of where signage or other measures were used to remedy the situation.

   
   
   
   
8. Fleegel Timothy

   
   8/9/2011 12:08 PM

   I didn't think about using them as a resource, do you have any contact information? Thanks.

   
   
   
   
9. Wahlin Scott B

   
   8/9/2011 1:08 PM

   Here you go...
   
   http://acspgolf.auduboninternational.org/

   
   
   
   
10. Brett Morris

    

    0 posts
    
    8/9/2011 2:08 PM

    Will see your alligator, and raise you one of my 3 crocodiles. This one was approximately 3m and lived in a pond to the left of the 9th fairway. Another in the irrigation pond and one in the 10th.
    
    [attachment=0">Croc No 9 February 2011.jpg[/attachment">

    
    
    
    
11. Tom Forsythe

    

    0 posts
    
    8/9/2011 8:08 PM

    When I visited Farmlinks a couple of years ago I noticed that they had warning signs for rattlesnakes posted beside a few of their cart paths. The sign got my attention in a hurry even if it was January when I visited.

    
    
    
    
12. Fleegel Timothy

    
    8/10/2011 12:08 PM

    Well I talked to an attorney, my sister, about it. She said that if we know about it we should post signs informing our guests.

    
    
    
    
13. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    8/10/2011 4:08 PM

    Tim,
    
    Although I don't doubt your sisters legal expertise, I posed the question again to one of our attorney's for this specific instance. His response:
    
    "Although signs do purposely warn of an inherit relevant danger to comprehending adults, they do nothing for those members of the public that can not understand or fully grasp the amount of inherit danger, such as children or speakers of a foreign language. The signs need to contain relevant information to the danger posed, should be stated in multiple languages for which your clientele is perceived to understand and be placed within a conspicuous location so that all persons that enter the property are in fact aware of such danger. The signs should not be placed in a specific location on the golf course as you can be held liable for not properly identifying all areas of inherit relevant danger."
    
    
    Just thought I'd pass it along.

    
    
    
    
14. Fleegel Timothy

    
    8/10/2011 7:08 PM

    Thanks Andy. So what I get from what you posted is that if we put up signs, they need to be someplace where everybody can see them, such as the areas you enter the 1st and 10th tees along with in the pro-shop. Did your person say weather it would be better to not have any signs at all?

    
    
    
    
15. Melvin Waldron

    

    43 posts
    
    8/11/2011 9:08 AM

    timfleegel said: Thanks Andy. So what I get from what you posted is that if we put up signs, they need to be someplace where everybody can see them, such as the areas you enter the 1st and 10th tees along with in the pro-shop. Did your person say weather it would be better to not have any signs at all?

    
    
    Tim's point about not having any signs is a good question. There was (and this was many years ago, 14+) a case in NJ that when a storm was rolling in, golf course personal went out to warn golfers to get off the course, they didn't reach a golfer or two in time and one was struck by lighting and I believed killed. The course was sued because their warning system/procedure wasn't good enough. So if I remember, courses that didn't have fancy lightning detectors didn't have a policy and would not send out staff to warn golfers. Golfers played at their own risk. Could the same be said of dangerous animals?
    
    Mel

    
    Melvin H. Waldron III, CGCS, Horton Smith Golf Course, City of Springfield/Greene County MO
    
    
16. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    8/11/2011 9:08 AM

    We obviously have an abundance of rattlesnakes, being located in a inland valley environment. We do have signs advising you of their presence. We normally just herd them back into bushes or rocks if we get a call. If a snake is aggressive or in a location that could pose an immediate danger to a golfer, we will move the snake from the area. We never kill them because we need all the help we can get with our out of control rabbit and ground squirrel population. Only about four of us will handle the snake moving duties since we want to be sure it is done carefully and with full respect for the business end of a rattlesnake. I never worry about the ones we need to move, it is the one you don't see that is the biggest problem.

    
    
    
    
17. Fleegel Timothy

    
    8/11/2011 10:08 AM

    Sandy what do your signs say, how many do you have, and where are they located?

    
    
    
    
18. Ronald Conard

    

    4 posts
    
    8/11/2011 11:08 AM

    So if I wander off into the depths of Yellowstone, dressed in a salmon suit, can I sue when I get mauled by a grizz if I couldn't read the signage from within my suit?

    
    
    
    
19. Sandy Clark

    

    0 posts
    
    8/11/2011 11:08 AM

    Tim, we have about 6 and they are the standard signs sold by Eagle One. They have a picture of a Rattlesnake and under the snake it says Rattlesnakes may be found in this are. They are important members of the natural community. They will not attack but if disturbed or cornered, they will defend themselves. We have them by the first and tenth tees and around boulders and dry creek beds. We always have a couple of spares in case a certain area suddenly becomes active. I know things are different on sovereign land because the tribe functions as a governmental agency. Requirements are probably quite different in most locations.
    
    Sandy

    
    
    
    
20. Andy Jorgensen

    

    1 posts
    
    8/11/2011 2:08 PM

    Tim,
    
    He didn't specifically say that no signs would be better, but stressed that if we put out signs, we need to cover all of our bases. Signs on 1 and 10, in my opinion, do nothing to protect anyone using your driving range or putting green. He specifically stated to have it somewhere that people can see it when entering the property. He pointed out that there was a case once in some state like New Jersey where signs were installed to warn about rip currents. But, the signs were spaced too far apart, and of course someone drowned while swimming between the signs. The family sued the city or town that put the signs up and won because they didn't have them close enough for everybody that used the beach to see. He related that to you putting a sign up in the fairway, and someone got bit by a green and could use the excuse that they didn't see the sign since it was in an area they weren't playing in.

    
    
    
    
21. Ryan Bruner

    

    4 posts
    
    8/28/2011 12:08 PM

    BallMark said:

    timfleegel said: Thanks Andy. So what I get from what you posted is that if we put up signs, they need to be someplace where everybody can see them, such as the areas you enter the 1st and 10th tees along with in the pro-shop. Did your person say weather it would be better to not have any signs at all?

    
    
    Tim's point about not having any signs is a good question. There was (and this was many years ago, 14+) a case in NJ that when a storm was rolling in, golf course personal went out to warn golfers to get off the course, they didn't reach a golfer or two in time and one was struck by lighting and I believed killed. The course was sued because their warning system/procedure wasn't good enough. So if I remember, courses that didn't have fancy lightning detectors didn't have a policy and would not send out staff to warn golfers. Golfers played at their own risk. Could the same be said of dangerous animals?
    
    Mel

    We have been given the advice to either tell them all or tell none. Same as with lightening. If you can't get to everyone on the course, then you could be liable. If you didn't tell anyone, it would be considered an act of mother nature.
    
    Ryan